What are your thoughts?
In your opinion, is there ever a justification for lying in business?
What example(s) do you have of lying in business? What happened? How did it affect you?
How do you handle it when you deal with someone who you know, or discover later, is lying?
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30 Responses to this post
November 29, 2010 at 6:53 pm |
Hi Robin,
I’ve had a good think – but I find it hard to justify any sort of lying in business, especially if you’re talking numbers… If you do, someone will eventually find the truth and ruin your reputation for ever… I mean, lying with numbers can even lead to prosecution (and not persecution!!) so why take the risk?
Similarly, I’ve been hearing of an increasing number of people, especially in industries such as online or finance, lying about their resume and actual experience. Sooner or later this comes out too.
I guess the types of scenarios I don’t mind so much is when the core info is correct, and the lie doesn’t really have a negative impact on the potential customer and the quality of what they’re buying. For instance, if I was thinking of going to a Festival or a show at the Opera House, and if I buy my ticket as a result of them sending out an email campaign saying there are only a few tickets left (even though that’s not 100% true), I don’t really mind the ‘minor’ lie. It’s just a promotion tactic we come across every now and then. However, the theatre better be packed on the day, because if I find we’re only a handful of people there because the show’s a dud, they’ll be hearing from me!
November 30, 2010 at 6:40 pm |
Excellent input, Myriam. Have you ever lied in business? Or tempted to lie? What were the circumstances?
Best, Robin
November 29, 2010 at 7:12 pm |
I agree with Myriam, there’s plenty of ‘only x no. of tickets left’ lies out there and I am wise enough to know it is a ploy for sale. AND, yes, the show better be packed out!
I know that people will say ‘very busy’, ‘loads of work coming in’, etc. to give the impression of ‘success’ and that too doesn’t really phase me. That said, I’d rather a robust discussion around the truth and what can be done to make it ‘loads of work coming in’, but I know not to expect that.
I would like honesty when my time and expertise is being used. (I originally had ‘demand honesty’ but thought that was a bit harsh and not realistic.)
And, as Myriam said, when it’s down to numbers, if one lies then one will eventually be caught out and could result in persecution.
Having recruited my share of people, I’m fairly good at picking a CV apart and asking those behavioural questions that will highlight what’s really missing and what’s really up for the job.
Differences in relative truth slapped me fairly hard across the face in one particular instance not so long ago. ‘She’ stated that the new laptops would be available by December and that she had authority to purchase and had ordered them, etc etc…. only to find 7 months and plenty of excuses later she had done nothing. My level of trust in that person incrementally decreased as the time went on, to the point of me not really wanting to deal with her. When I attempted to address the trust issue I was just lied to more. I withdrew from having to deal with her as best possible. Not the result I would have preferred but there does come a point when you gotta know when hold ‘em and know when to fold ‘em!
Sally ~ Fast-Tracks Manager Productivity
November 30, 2010 at 6:42 pm |
Thank you, Sally. Surely having the guts to tell the truth in your CV speaks of the kind of integrity that organisations want? Too naive? Too idealistic?
November 29, 2010 at 7:13 pm |
That’s a simple one Robin… never play games, always tell the truth. Life is just easier that way – and you’ll get gooooood karma too.
November 30, 2010 at 6:44 pm |
The truth certainly makes life simpler. How far should the truth go? If someone who obviously is at the point of cracking emotionally asks you for honest feedback about their business and your truthful answer risks pushing them over the edge, should you hold back?
November 29, 2010 at 7:22 pm |
People tell lies all the time. Anyone looking at that pitch and buying the numbers should be getting them verified before doing anything.
Whether the person lies or doesn’t that’s just prudent.
November 30, 2010 at 6:45 pm |
Agreed, Lindy. Due diligence is just good business practice. Thanks for your input here.
November 29, 2010 at 7:56 pm |
As a PR gal, who worked in politics for nearly twenty years, I understand, and have been very good with the spin. It was my job, I cut my teeth at the knee of some very powerful spin doctors.
As well, my late husband was not called the toe cutter in his industry for no reason. He always said, you can’t kid a kidder.
No getting around it, you can’t kid this kidder.
I saw that blink …
Catherine
November 30, 2010 at 6:47 pm |
Thank you, Catherine. PR and politics! Now there’s a potent combination vulnerable to the occasional porky pie!
November 29, 2010 at 9:59 pm |
Simple. Tell the truth, or don’t say it. As a seller, the absence of information is not lying, it’s being prudent. Conversely it is prudent as a buyer to ask the questions, and sensible as the seller to answer them honestly.
November 30, 2010 at 6:49 pm |
Thank you, Tony. Surely, non-disclosure is just another form of lying. If you know that your product/service is not in the best interests of the buyer, but you don’t tell them because they don’t ask you, surely that’s a problem?
December 1, 2010 at 9:08 pm |
Absolutely agree Robin. How would the salesperson determine that the product was not in the buyer’s best interest? By understanding the buyer’s needs. If they still got the sale then they would have to have lied. By offering honest information, or none at all, this is avoided.
November 29, 2010 at 11:19 pm |
I think for me as time goes on I find myself less worried about if someone in business is telling me the truth, I prefer to see the actuals or if it’s just in general passing I take it with a grain of salt. Personally I don’t see a real reason for lying in business as my father always said, “Worry about your own pocket and no one else’s.”
November 30, 2010 at 8:15 pm |
Nice touch, john. Thank you.
November 29, 2010 at 11:38 pm |
Hi Robin, I wouldn’t make a distinction between lying in business and lying anywhere else. Is lying ever permissible or justifiable? My feelings on the subject are similar to Myriam’s. To me there is a difference between a “white lie” and a substantive lie – the latter being the type which you describe in your post. Not all people will agree on where you draw the line, to be sure. That said, honesty is the best policy. Relationships, business or otherwise, are built on trust. Relying on even white lies as a shortcut or to avoid an uncomfortable (but necessary) conversation will diminish relationships over time and lead to poor outcomes. Lying is the last resort, but I’d be a liar if I said I never resorted to it!
November 30, 2010 at 8:17 pm |
Love your honesty, Brad. That’s what it’s all about. There have been times when I’ve been economical with the truth to save myself some short-term pain and hassles, but it’s been false economy to do so. Better to keep it real.
November 30, 2010 at 7:22 am |
Hi Robin, all lies become unravelled and the consequences can be enormous. At the end of each day each person has to live in their own skin, whether it’s business or personal – the question your colleague should be asking himself is ‘do I have the constitution to handle the consequences?’ As for entering into a business venture with padded numbers, only a desperate person would enter without objective clarification; breadcrumbs are left everywhere and your ‘so smart’ colleague will be his own undoing.
November 30, 2010 at 8:18 pm |
So true, D07. The consequences can echo for years. Thank you for your input.
December 2, 2010 at 7:33 pm |
Well, there are lies, damned lies and consulting proposals…
If “lie” is the opposite of “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth” then I lie everyday, probably every hour. For example…
When selling, I regularly state that as a result of some work we did, 2,500 more cancer patients per year are treated in NSW with Radiotherapy, and I have a report by the State’s auditor general to back that up. I don’t mention any other investment that may have taken place – for example, in newer, more capable equipment. I don’t talk at all about any increase in the number of Radiation Oncologists, Radiotherapists or Medical Physicists. I’m silent about any changes in working hours.
I justify this on the basis that the end justifies the means – the potential client will be better off if only they had the good sense to employ us.
But there are limits. In sales proposals, the previous owners of our business would typically exaggerate the number of staff in the business by a factor of 10; they claimed to have carried out projects actually done by other companies; they systematically invented a past for the business which was largely fantasy.
So, how to respond? We – Suellen and I – made a conscious decision that we would be as honest as prudence allows in all aspects of the business, and we have incorporated this in our core brand proposition. We no longer make false claims in proposals. We articulate this to our clients under the banner “respect” – that we will treat our clients at all times with the same respect as they might expect from a dear friend – and rebranded the business as “Amica” – Latin for friend. We try extremely hard to live up to this vision.
But what does prudence mean? Well, for example, we have expanded our work in cancer care into histopathology, chemotherapy and haematology, but we have never formally told the client that the original basis on which our company won the work was a wild exaggeration of its (then) capability.
And since we are telling the truth here? The truth is that most clients don’t care. By and large, they expect to be lied to, and discount most of what consultants tell them – us included.
They can’t handle the truth
December 7, 2010 at 9:06 am |
Thank you for your detailed and generous comment, Adonis. My sincere apologies for not replying sooner. The truth is that I found your words to be self-contained in the sense that they add substance to the discussion topic without need for ‘over-facilitation’ by me. That said, the people who contribute to this blog, myself included, appreciate very much having your calibre of input.
Best regards,
Robin
December 7, 2010 at 9:42 am |
Hi Robin
You’re quite right, my post was pretty self-contained. I’m more of a story-teller than a seeker after truth, I fear.
As you can probably tell, your original post got me thinking, and as I drafted my response I had three key questions in mind. I wonder what the group’s experience is on these questions?:
- is it your experience that customers are often so hard-bitten or savvy (or even apprehensive) that they discount what you tell them in the sales process?
- if that is true, how do you respond?
- if your competitors are stretching the truth, are you disadvantaged if you don’t do the same?
December 7, 2010 at 9:52 am |
These are excellent builds in this discussion. Responding from my own commercial experience:
a) Is it your experience that customers are often so hard-bitten or savvy (or even apprehensive) that they discount what you tell them in the sales process?
This can often work the other way i.e. the situation where customers suddenly realise that they have found the supplier with ‘the answer’ then shuts down their crap-test radar for exaggerated claims and hyperbole. Halo effect?
b) if that is true, how do you respond?
My response to this pitch-sensitivity is to offer a combination of access to credible reference sites and demonstrating consulting capability on-the-spot.
c) if your competitors are stretching the truth, are you disadvantaged if you don’t do the same?
No, not if you are in it for the long haul. A reputation for honesty and integrity is priceless and outlasts the vicissitudes of boom and bust of the short-term scammers.
What about you, Adonis? What’s your opinion?
December 7, 2010 at 9:57 am |
Adonis I enjoyed your post though it left me a tad depressed. I think you have some good points and they lead me back to something that I’ve been pondering for a little while now and it is this.
I think some people want to buy the Dog and Pony Show.
They want the performance and the lies and that’s part of how they feel like they are getting their monies worth. (Money’s worth?)
That’s not something that I’m up for, but I’m interested in whether others think this is true.
December 7, 2010 at 10:35 am |
Hi Lindy
I think it is a bit depressing, but not all gloom and doom.
But I totally agree, it can be demoralising when you just KNOW your offer is better, but the customer chooses more style and less substance – especially if the style is largely an over-claim.
What to do? Maybe you can focus on a smaller segment of customers where performance not hype is the key criteria? I tend to think of the dog and pony show as part of the actual product, and justify the effort on that basis.
But I wish they all just wanted the things we are good at!
December 7, 2010 at 10:42 am |
No not all gloom and doom.
I guess it comes down to values. Like most things, what?
Verifying the customers’s criteria is a very good start and worth remembering, that they will often now know their own.
In a broader sense I wonder how many of us really prefer the Version They Want To Be True, than the version that Is.
I’m such a party pooper
December 7, 2010 at 10:20 am |
I am sure I have told people many lies.
‘Business is doing great!’ when it certainly is not, but that was out of fear and pride around saving face.
Would someone want to do business with me if I was in a quiet patch?
What would I think is someone told me the same thing? Would I accept a quiet patch as part of the ebb and flow of business, or a a black mark against the other person skills?
Would I still pay a premium, if the person wasn’t swamped? Would I discount their value if no one else wanted to wrk with them as much as I did?
[Sorry, more questions than answers Robin]
December 7, 2010 at 10:21 am |
I think that it’s a real skill to be able to distinguish between “general rules of selling” and “works in a specific situation.”
But generally, though my heart tells me that honesty is the best policy, my head (and long years of bitter experience) says that in many areas the customer just doesn’t care. For example, I once made a pitch on diversification to a large technology company. As the competitors were all household names – McKinsey, Bain, PWC etc – I couldn’t really compete on track record, or relationships, or reputation or methodology.
It’s not a price sensitive buying decision, usually, so I decided to compete on the basis of honesty, and set out in its full glory just how hard diversification is, where the pitfalls lie, what it would feel like for the client at various stages in the journey, and how we would focus all our efforts on those likely points of failure. We lost the job. Client’s feedback? Best pitch of them all, we have no doubt your company knows more about this topic than anyone else we spoke to, you made us feel very uncomfortable. 
A few lessons to be learned there!
So what’s the positive in all this?
I think it’s the old lesson about understanding your customer’s buying criteria. You certainly don’t want to be lying on the things that they value, as you rightly say, Robin, if you want to be there for the long haul. And if it’s an aspect of your offer on which the customer places less weight? Well, why stretch the truth there? Well, that seems clear enough – I wonder if I will be able to take my own advice?
Of course, the picture changes from black and white to grey when you don’t actually know your customers’ criteria well enough.
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